Legislature(1999 - 2000)

07/28/1999 01:30 PM Senate MER

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
JOINT SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON MERGERS                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
                          July 28, 1999                                                                                         
                            1:30 p.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Rick Halford, Chair                                                                                                     
Representative Brian Porter                                                                                                     
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
Representative Jim Whitaker                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Drue Pearce                                                                                                             
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                            
Representative Joe Green, Vice-Chair                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
British Petroleum-ARCO Merger                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM BAER, Director                                                                                                          
Bureau of Competition                                                                                                           
Federal Trade Commission                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
GUS FLIAKOS, Retired Energy Analyst                                                                                             
Merrill Lynch                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BILL BRITT, Pipeline Coordinator                                                                                                
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
411 West 4th Avenue, Suite 2C                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska 99501-2343                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FLOYD HEIMBUCH                                                                                                                  
240 Saratoga Avenue                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska 99517                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTY McGRAW, Director                                                                                                        
BACKBONE-Standing Up for Alaska's Future                                                                                        
5412 West Dimond #4                                                                                                             
Anchorage, AK  99515                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
STEVE CONN, Executive Director                                                                                                  
Alaska Public Interest Research Group                                                                                           
PO Box 101093                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, AK  99503                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HAROLD HEINZE, 30 year Alaskan resident                                                                                         
1336 Saubbach Circle                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska 99508                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
VIC FISCHER                                                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA WILLIAMS, Alaska Injured Workers Alliance                                                                               
603 West 18th                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska 99503                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD FINEBERG                                                                                                                
PO Box 416                                                                                                                      
Ester, AK  99725                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TOM LAKOSH                                                                                                                      
PO Box 100648                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska 99510                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-3, SIDE A                                                                                                               
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Joint Special Committee on Mergers                                                                  
meeting to order at 1:30 p.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM BAER, Director, Bureau of Competition, Federal Trade                                                                    
Commission (FTC),  specified that the views he will provide today                                                               
are his own and are not necessarily the views of the FTC or any                                                                 
individual commissioner.  He also noted that the FTC is under                                                                   
strict confidentiality constraints as law enforcement officials.                                                                
He explained that the law does not allow him to disclose the                                                                    
details of the information of the investigation, the information                                                                
being gathered, and the individuals spoken to.  Mr. Baer                                                                        
acknowledged the help this investigation has received from the                                                                  
joint committee and the staff from the Governor's task force.  He                                                               
noted the various meetings he has attended regarding this merger.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER explained the process followed by the FTC when                                                                         
investigating a merger such as the BP-Amoco ARCO merger.  Under the                                                             
Pre-Merger Notification Act (Hart Scott Rodino), parties such as BP                                                             
and ARCO are required to file a detailed pre-merger filing with the                                                             
FTC and the Justice Department.  The filing explains the deal and                                                               
provides basic background into areas in which both companies                                                                    
compete.  Annually, about 4,800 such filings are received.                                                                      
According to statute, parties must wait at least 30 days before                                                                 
consummating the transaction.  If the FTC determines there are                                                                  
serious competitive issues, the FTC is allowed to authorize a                                                                   
second request.  The second request demands documents and                                                                       
information enabling the FTC staff to determine whether a                                                                       
particular transaction is problematic.  After the companies comply                                                              
with the second request, the FTC has 20 days to determine whether                                                               
to go to court to block the merger.  If the FTC does not decide to                                                              
go to court, the companies would, after the expiration of the 20                                                                
days, be free to close on the transaction.  With regard to the                                                                  
question of when the FTC will make such decisions, that is better                                                               
asked to the parties who are in the position to announce when they                                                              
will provide the FTC with the information requested.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER informed the committee that, in any merger investigation,                                                              
the FTC spends considerable time gathering information, data,                                                                   
documents, and speaking to interested parties.  Company documents                                                               
are reviewed for competitive concerns.  He noted that in issuing a                                                              
second request, the FTC identifies the specific areas where it is                                                               
thought that the merger may raise antitrust issues.  Depositions                                                                
and investigational hearings often occur.  As the joint committee                                                               
and the Attorney General did, the FTC hires experts in the industry                                                             
in order to work through the areas of concern.  When the parties                                                                
have complied with the information sought, the investigating staff                                                              
makes a recommendation to the commission, who then makes the                                                                    
judgement regarding what to do.  Mr. Baer pointed out that the                                                                  
recommendation can take various forms such as to move to court to                                                               
block a transaction entirely, which only occurs in one or two out                                                               
of 100 investigations.  More often, when antitrust concerns are                                                                 
identified, a dialogue ensues with the parties in an attempt to                                                                 
arrive at a settlement agreement.  If the staff reaches agreement                                                               
with the companies, the staff would recommend that the commission                                                               
accept the settlement agreement.  He noted that a settlement                                                                    
scenario often occurs when the deal itself is not fundamentally                                                                 
flawed, but there are some discreet markets which can be fixed                                                                  
through a divestiture arrangement.  There are also cases in which                                                               
no problems are found.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER commented that the FTC has spent many years investigating                                                              
oil mergers.  The last wave of mergers was in the early 1980s                                                                   
during which the FTC was involved in investigating mergers                                                                      
involving Chevron and Gulf, Sinclair and Mobile Marathon, Sun                                                                   
Atlantic and Pacific Resources.  More recently, there has been a                                                                
second major wave of mergers involving Shell and Texaco, as well as                                                             
BP and Amoco.  Both of those two mergers resulted in consent                                                                    
agreements requiring some substantial divestitures where                                                                        
competitive problems were identified.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER turned to the BP-Amoco ARCO merger.  He said that one                                                                  
level of concern is likely to be the impact a major oil company                                                                 
merger would have on exploration and production.  He identified the                                                             
following as concerns which warrant review.  Firstly, a merger may                                                              
lessen competition or raise the price for the crude oil.   With                                                                 
regard to this merger, the question is whether the Alaska North                                                                 
Slope (ANS) crude is fully in competition worldwide.  If the crude                                                              
is competitive worldwide, the risk that the merger would result in                                                              
higher crude oil prices which would result in higher gasoline                                                                   
prices at the pump would be slight.  If ANS crude seems somewhat                                                                
uniquely valuable, then there is the possibility that an antitrust                                                              
issue would need to be addressed.  He identified the second                                                                     
concern; competition may be lessened in the bidding for the leases                                                              
to develop new fields.  If a significant bidder is eliminated from                                                              
the bid process, it can diminish the revenue to the owner of the                                                                
property.  In this case, the federal government and the state are                                                               
in the business of leasing lands for development.  A reduction in                                                               
bidding competition, potentially, can raise an antitrust issue                                                                  
worth review.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER informed the committee that he was aware that, in Alaska,                                                              
an elaborate infrastructure is necessary in order to engage in                                                                  
exploration and production.  A loss of competition among                                                                        
exploration and development companies could result in higher prices                                                             
or reduced service and may adversely affect decisions of smaller                                                                
firms who may need to rely on those present on the North Slope in                                                               
order to develop reserves.  He also acknowledged that there are                                                                 
many service companies which deal with exploration and production                                                               
companies.  Service companies may deal with a single purchaser of                                                               
the service which would result in those service companies not                                                                   
receiving a competitive or fair price for their service.  In such                                                               
a case, the concern would be that competitive firms would be driven                                                             
from the market and competition would be reduced.  Mr. Baer noted                                                               
that, in the past, the FTC has expressed concern with undue                                                                     
concentration and anti-competitive effects involving transportation                                                             
of crude oil, refined product, and gasoline.  A number of cases                                                                 
with such problems have been brought forward in the past.  The                                                                  
question of ownership of the Trans-Alaska Pipeline and whether one                                                              
company having a significant percentage of ownership would                                                                      
adversely affect the ability of those without an ownership interest                                                             
to ship product at competitive rates is an antitrust issue that                                                                 
would need to be reviewed.  The case would be the same for those                                                                
with some interest, but with excess supply who need to turn to                                                                  
others for excess capacity to ship.  Mr. Baer recognized that there                                                             
are not a large number of firms engaged in the transportation of                                                                
crude oil from Valdez to refineries on the West Coast.  That would                                                              
also be an antitrust issue that would need to be addressed.  Mr.                                                                
Baer noted the question of existing competition to develop                                                                      
technology in order to bring to market gas from the North Slope.                                                                
Whether the merger would eliminate that competition to make that                                                                
product commercially attractive is also an area that would need to                                                              
be investigated.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER stated that the FTC has the following mission:  "To focus                                                              
on the issues of competition.  Will consumers of a particular                                                                   
product or service be worse off if a merger goes through?"  He                                                                  
acknowledged that some of the issues that may concern Alaskans may                                                              
be broader relating to revenues, environmental issues, and jobs.                                                                
Although those are legitimate public policy issues for the                                                                      
legislature and the Governor to review, they are not necessarily                                                                
antitrust issues and the FTC's authority does not extend to those.                                                              
In conclusion, Mr. Baer said he was aware that this merger uniquely                                                             
affects Alaskans and is therefore, of utmost importance to the                                                                  
legislature.  Furthermore, committee members and members of the                                                                 
executive branch and Alaskans are uniquely knowledgeable about some                                                             
of the competitive issues likely to affect Alaska and the issues                                                                
requiring investigation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 166                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if the existence of a second request is                                                                  
something that can be asked and responded to.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER said such could be asked, but he could not disclose                                                                    
whether there has been a pre-merger notification.  He stated that                                                               
he could disclose that an investigation is occurring.  The parties                                                              
involved could answer such questions.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY inquired as to the time frame, from the                                                                  
start to approval, of past mergers such as the Shell merger and the                                                             
BP-Amoco merger.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER replied that the Shell merger was under investigation for                                                              
about six to eight months.  The BP-Amoco merger was on a faster                                                                 
time frame as the deal was announced around September 1998 and the                                                              
FTC review was concluded by the beginning of the next year.  In the                                                             
BP-Amoco transaction, the parties were anxious to close and the                                                                 
competitive concerns of the FTC were identified and an agreement                                                                
was made.  Mr. Baer noted that the Exxon-Mobile merger was                                                                      
announced earlier this year and remains under investigation.  Those                                                             
parties have indicated that they are hopeful that some agreement                                                                
would be reached with the FTC by September 1999.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY inquired as to the criteria that would have                                                              
to be found in order to block a merger.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER explained that mergers that have been challenged in the                                                                
past have included retail mergers such as the proposed merger of                                                                
Staples and Office Depot.  The FTC found that 70 or 80 percent of                                                               
the deal involved serious antitrust concerns.  Therefore, there was                                                             
not a negotiated solution from the parties' standpoint.  There were                                                             
two mergers involving the four largest pharmaceutical wholesale                                                                 
companies which were investigated and litigated last year.  Again,                                                              
the FTC did not see a divestiture that worked.  Mr. Baer clarified                                                              
that it really comes down to how many concerns the FTC has, the                                                                 
nature and extent of those concerns, and then engaging in a                                                                     
dialogue identifying the findings and requirements to avoid going                                                               
to court.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 214                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if Alaska's unique situation of state                                                               
ownership and Alaskans interested in receiving a maximized return                                                               
would make Alaskans consumers or would the consumer be the person                                                               
at the pump.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER said he believed that the FTC has, in the past, challenged                                                             
transactions in which there was a lessening of competition in a                                                                 
bidding market.  The state and the federal government are entitled                                                              
to have a competitive process.  However, there is potential for                                                                 
tension between the state's interests and consumer interest                                                                     
elsewhere.  He explained that the state's revenue, including                                                                    
royalty and taxes, are a function of the delivered price, the net                                                               
price, of ANS crude.  Therefore, the state's interest on one level                                                              
may be best served by higher crude prices, while consumers in this                                                              
state and in the Lower 48 may be best served by competitive, lower                                                              
prices.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA inquired as to the effort the FTC would put                                                             
forth in Alaska with an investigation; would the FTC hold hearings                                                              
in Alaska or meet with individuals?                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER explained that the process would not be public, and                                                                    
therefore, public hearings would not be held.  He commented that it                                                             
is even unusual for staff to appear in this sort of forum.                                                                      
However, the request seemed reasonable due to the importance of                                                                 
this merger to the state.  He noted that his staff had been in the                                                              
state speaking with interested parties.  Since the FTC has                                                                      
investigated the oil industry thoroughly over the past two or three                                                             
years, the FTC already has much information relating to general                                                                 
issues about exploration and production.  Therefore, more detailed                                                              
information would be necessary.  Mr. Baer informed the committee                                                                
that the FTC has subpoena authority, as he understood this                                                                      
committee to have as well.  Often, statements of company officials                                                              
are taken under oath.  Mr. Baer commented that much time is spent                                                               
reviewing company documents to ensure that arguments regarding how                                                              
a market works or does not work are consistent with the view of the                                                             
businessmen in the privacy of their offices.  He said that he and                                                               
staff would continue to meet with people.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked what is the easiest way for people to                                                             
directly contact Mr. Baer and staff.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER informed everyone that the easiest contact is via e-mail,                                                              
wbaer@ftc.com, or through a phone call.  Any inquiries received                                                                 
would be forwarded to staff working on the matter.  He stressed                                                                 
that any information received is kept confidential.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA inquired as to the access members of                                                                    
Congress have to the documents filed with the FTC.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER stated that, generally, members of Congress do not have                                                                
access at all.  A statute provides that a committee with oversight                                                              
authority may seek a confidential briefing on matters pending                                                                   
before the agency.  Generally, documents are not shared with                                                                    
Congress.  Mr. Baer pointed out that the pre-merger review process                                                              
works fairly well because highly confidential information has been                                                              
protected which allows the agency to obtain necessary information                                                               
without much difficulty.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 298                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what companies can do with assets during the                                                             
time after the Hart Scott Rodino filing, but before there is                                                                    
approval of a merger.  For example, Alaska has a law limiting the                                                               
amount of leases that can be held by a company.  Can companies buy,                                                             
sell, or transfer assets?  Could the companies sell leases to a                                                                 
third party; could partial ownership of the pipeline be                                                                         
transferred?  Chairman Halford inquired as to the limitations of                                                                
the merging companies during the FTC's period of review.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER specified that the companies cannot sell assets to each                                                                
other until the period of review is over.  There is no barrier to                                                               
selling acreage or rights to develop acreage, except the pre-merger                                                             
notification rules.  Therefore, a transaction with a third party of                                                             
significant size, $15 million or more, would require the filing of                                                              
a separate merger filing or acquisition report with the FTC.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if that separate process was the same type                                                               
of process.  If a company wanted to sell 300,000 acres of leases to                                                             
a third party with no other current interest in Alaska or sell a                                                                
proportion of ownership of the pipeline to a third party.  What                                                                 
would such a situation trigger?                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER explained that the parties would have to file, but if no                                                               
competitive issue was raised by the proposed transaction alone, the                                                             
FTC would likely raise no objection and allow the transaction to                                                                
move forward.  There would be no basis to go to court to block that                                                             
transaction.  Therefore, companies can engage in self-help to avoid                                                             
competitive issues.  However, that does not typically occur because                                                             
a package deal with the FTC is desired so as to resolve all                                                                     
concerns.  He explained that often companies wait to receive a                                                                  
sense of the FTC's concerns and incorporate sales to third parties                                                              
into the consent agreement.  Still, the company has the right to                                                                
sell off assets to third parties.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER inquired as to whether there is linkage                                                                 
between the proposed Exxon Mobile merger and this merger.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER stated that there is no formal linkage.  He indicated the                                                              
need to review the impact each merger has on the other.  Although                                                               
there is no formal linkage between the Exxon Mobile merger and the                                                              
BP-Amoco merger, there are obviously common issues related to                                                                   
exploration, production, and ownership.  Therefore, it is fair to                                                               
assume that the FTC needs to be sensitive to the impact of one                                                                  
investigation on others.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 368                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER asked if there is a relationship between                                                                
the state's position, with regard to FTC issues, and the FTC's                                                                  
position on those issues.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER said that the state would have to make an independent                                                                  
determination as to what is necessary to discharge its duties, as                                                               
will the FTC.  However, the FTC is quite sensitive in dealing with                                                              
matters that have a unique impact in one state, especially with                                                                 
something this significant.  The practice is to closely work with                                                               
the antitrust investigation conducted by any attorney general, as                                                               
is being conducted by Attorney General Botelho.  The hope is to, by                                                             
working closely with the attorney general, arrive at a common                                                                   
endpoint or at least clearly understand the differences.  Again,                                                                
each agency or branch of government will make an independent                                                                    
decision at the end of the process.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER expressed curiosity as to the approach to                                                               
a market that is so vertically integrated that it is difficult to                                                               
discern the relationship between the downstream and upstream.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER reiterated that the FTC has investigated the oil industry                                                              
at length in the past few years and is sensitive to special                                                                     
antitrust issues that arise from vertical integration.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD pointed out that proponents of the merger cite                                                                 
increased efficiency which will increase benefits to everyone in                                                                
the chain, including the state and the consumer, as a reason to                                                                 
support the merger.  However, efficiency is often the argument                                                                  
against competition; yet historically, competition has been seen as                                                             
the way to enforce efficiency.  Chairman Halford assumed that the                                                               
FTC is biased toward competition.  How will the efficiency argument                                                             
fare in the arena that this regulatory system works?                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER informed the committee that the merger guidelines, jointly                                                             
promulgated by the FTC and the Antitrust Division, were amended in                                                              
1996 to speak to the efficiency question.  The guidelines say that                                                              
efficiencies are a legitimate factor in mergers that otherwise                                                                  
might pose anti-competitive problems.  To a large extent,                                                                       
efficiencies must be reviewed with regard to where they originate.                                                              
Once the significance of the efficiencies are assessed, those                                                                   
efficiencies are weighed against the anti-competitive risks                                                                     
associated with the transaction.  "Those guidelines say that                                                                    
mergers to monopoly or near monopoly rarely will be justified by                                                                
any kind of efficiency savings because the commission does believe,                                                             
..., that competition is the best way of disciplining the                                                                       
marketplace and ensuring that not only we get present day goods and                                                             
services at competitive prices, but that the competition to improve                                                             
product, to exploit resources will continue."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 465                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD inquired as to the trigger requiring the Hart                                                                  
Scott Rodino filing.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER specified that a statute was passed in 1976 which outlines                                                             
the procedure.  Essentially, if one company has assets of $100                                                                  
million or more and another company has assets of $10 million or                                                                
more and there is a voting securities or asset transaction                                                                      
involving $15 million or more, filing is required.  Although he did                                                             
not know the exact figures in the BP-Amoco ARCO merger, he believed                                                             
that the figures may slightly exceed that threshold.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD inquired as to the allowance of pre-merger                                                                     
activities intended to position for a merger.  For instance, would                                                              
actions clearing the market three years in advance of a merger in                                                               
order to avoid anti-competitive issues be allowed.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER said that certain activities are not allowed.  Such                                                                    
activities would be those in which the two companies act as one                                                                 
before the merger is approved or before the Hart Scott Rodino                                                                   
period expires.  For example, it would be in violation of antitrust                                                             
laws for the companies to jointly set prices, market, or bid.  With                                                             
regard to the subtleties that could occur, Mr. Baer believed it                                                                 
would depend upon the facts.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY posed a situation in which ARCO was prepared                                                             
to sell gas prior to the merger.  Perhaps, the merger, with BP's                                                                
ownership, would create more competitive gas closer to the market.                                                              
Would that be of concern with the FTC?                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BAER said that it could be problematic for two competing                                                                    
companies to decide, before the completion of the merger review                                                                 
process, how marketing would occur or that one company would not                                                                
compete as aggressively in order that the buying or selling company                                                             
was more successful.  That would be reviewed seriously.  He                                                                     
explained that the desire is to preserve the competition that                                                                   
exists until the state's review and the FTC's review is complete.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD took a short at-ease.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 556                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
GUS FLIAKOS, Retired Energy Analyst, Merrill Lynch, testified via                                                               
teleconference.  Mr. Fliakos announced that he would provide the                                                                
committee with an overview of oil prices and then take questions                                                                
regarding the merger.  He said the best way to approach the oil                                                                 
business is to identify two perspectives to oil as a commodity.  He                                                             
explained that one perspective is that oil as a commodity has long                                                              
term, underlying trends which are influenced by broad demographic                                                               
factors, technological developments, and broad underlying                                                                       
variables.  Mr. Fliakos believed that the long-term trend in the                                                                
oil business is positive, the underlying dynamics are good, and oil                                                             
prices will go up.  He noted the need to compare his outlook with                                                               
the experience of the 1980s during which oil was clearly declining.                                                             
During that time, oil demand was weak, there was a low supply and                                                               
there was much surplus capacity.  Looking ahead, he believed oil                                                                
demand will be good and surplus capacity limited.  Furthermore, one                                                             
must recognize that much oil is supplied from areas that are                                                                    
politically unstable.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. FLIAKOS turned to another perspective which views oil as a                                                                  
commodity that can have a powerful inventory cycle and can                                                                      
experience much volatility influenced by temporary events affecting                                                             
supply and demand.  Such influential events could be an economic                                                                
recession, weather patterns, and political developments.  In the                                                                
past four years, there has been a powerful inventory cycle and                                                                  
enormous volatility.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-3, SIDE B                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. FLIAKOS pointed out that oil levels were reduced to                                                                         
historically low levels in 1996 due to good growth in oil demand                                                                
worldwide.  That growth was caused by good economic conditions and                                                              
a very cold winter in 1995-1996.  Furthermore, supplies were                                                                    
limited because Iraqi oil exports were not in the system.  Also the                                                             
oil companies had reduced inventories to very low levels as part of                                                             
their "just in time" inventory management and wish to improve                                                                   
financial performance.  Therefore, inventories were reduced to                                                                  
historically low levels which resulted in a strong oil price in                                                                 
1996.  At the beginning of 1997, the price of oil recovered to $25+                                                             
per barrel.  In 1997, inventories began to build due to the                                                                     
unusually mild winter of 1996-1997, the flow of Iraqi exports, and                                                              
the surfacing of economic problems in the Far East in late 1997                                                                 
which lowered oil demand there.  At the end of 1997, OPEC raised                                                                
production in the face of ominous signs.  As an analyst, Mr.                                                                    
Fliakos did not doubt that the price of oil would collapse to the                                                               
mid teens, which occurred.  OPEC responded by lowering production,                                                              
but the reduction was not enough to alleviate the surplus situation                                                             
which was caused by weaker oil demand than most expected, himself                                                               
included.  Earlier this year, OPEC responded to lower prices by                                                                 
lowering production, which coincided with a better tone in economic                                                             
demand due to improved economic conditions in the Far East.  OPEC's                                                             
response also coincided with lower production from non-OPEC                                                                     
sources.  Low oil prices shut in on economic production and the oil                                                             
industry significantly reduced spending which began to impact                                                                   
supplies.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. FLIAKOS explained that as 1999 began, there was a convergence                                                               
of  the following positive developments:  a better tone to oil                                                                  
demand, lowering of OPEC production, and lower non-OPEC supplies.                                                               
He informed the committee that early this year his prediction was                                                               
that  the correction would be too severe and result in the other                                                                
extreme.  Once again, inventories would be lowered significantly                                                                
and the price of oil would recover by more than expected.  He did                                                               
not believe it unlikely to expect the price of oil to, perhaps,                                                                 
reach $25 per barrel.  Already, the price has recovered to $20.50                                                               
per barrel which is much higher than most expected.  Mr. Fliakos                                                                
still believed there to be a good chance that the price of oil                                                                  
would increase because inventories will continue to decline due to                                                              
the positive developments mentioned earlier.  However, the high oil                                                             
price will not be sustained because a corrective adjustment will                                                                
occur.  He foresaw the following corrective adjustments:  recovery                                                              
in non-OPEC supplies, return of some economic production, and an                                                                
increase in spending by the oil industry.  At the same time, he                                                                 
predicted erosion in OPEC's discipline and eventual raising of                                                                  
production in order to prevent an extreme price.  Mr. Fliakos                                                                   
feared that the adjustments may be too severe and may occur too                                                                 
late.  Therefore, the price of oil may fall much lower than                                                                     
expected.  Unfortunately, volatility is inescapable in the oil                                                                  
business and will continue due to the adjustment processes which                                                                
are inherently destablizing.  He stressed the importance of                                                                     
recognizing that this volatility occurs around a long-term trend                                                                
which he believed to be positive.  One must also recognize the                                                                  
difference between the inventory extremes caused by temporary                                                                   
factors and the underlying trends.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. FLIAKOS turned to the subject of mergers and consolidations in                                                              
the oil industry.  He believed the basic driver for mergers and                                                                 
consolidations in the oil industry has been the tremendous attitude                                                             
changes in the managements of the major oil companies.  This is a                                                               
characteristic of corporate America in general.  In the 1990s the                                                               
management of oil companies has become more shareholder friendly                                                                
and financially oriented.  The desire to improve financial                                                                      
performance has, initially, led to very dramatic cost cutting.                                                                  
Additionally, the oil companies have sold under-performing assets                                                               
which was not enough and led to the beginnings of joint ventures                                                                
which initially occurred in marketing.  Then mergers of specific                                                                
business, not entire companies, occurred.  Then the environment                                                                 
turned sour last year due to low oil prices and the desire to                                                                   
improve performance became more challenging.  Therefore,                                                                        
consolidation of entire companies began.  He commented that it                                                                  
should not be a surprise that Amoco was the first major company to                                                              
succumb.  Although Amoco was a strong company, it experienced many                                                              
years of under performance and Amoco was not able to deliver on the                                                             
promises made to shareholders.  In the case of ARCO, Mr. Fliakos                                                                
disagreed with the timing but recognized that it is very difficult                                                              
for ARCO to perform well when oil prices are weak.  He pointed out                                                              
that ARCO has two strengths, Alaska production and the West Coast                                                               
refinery marketing business which is very volatile.  ARCO's                                                                     
performance through the years has not been particularly good and                                                                
last year was disastrous.  That resulted in ARCO seeking a merger                                                               
partner.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. FLIAKOS predicted, "As long as the managements are driven by                                                                
the desire to improve financial performance and to reward                                                                       
shareholders, consolidation will continue unless the oil                                                                        
environment remains so robust that it can perform well even without                                                             
consolidating.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 161                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD inquired as to what Mr. Fliakos would predict the                                                              
West Texas Intermediate (WTI) to be if he were to review an average                                                             
value over a five year period.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. FLIAKOS predicted it would be at a minimum, $20 per barrel, and                                                             
perhaps higher.  The risks in the years ahead are being confronted                                                              
with limited productive capacity in an industry very susceptible to                                                             
political shocks.  With regard to oil in the ground that can be                                                                 
tapped, Mr. Fliakos said that the surplus capacity is no more than                                                              
7 or 8 percent of global demand.  Although that may seem high, he                                                               
noted that OPEC shaves a lot of production and oil demand has been                                                              
particularly weak in the Far East.  He reminded the committee that                                                              
in the mid 1980s when the price of oil crashed, the surplus                                                                     
capacity was 25 percent of demand.  The amount of surplus capacity                                                              
today is very limited.  If the price of oil does not rise very                                                                  
quickly, he predicted a supply crisis.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD commented that the marginal production capacity of                                                             
the Mid East seems to have many incentives to manipulate the long                                                               
term non-OPEC capacity in high cost areas.  Chairman Halford said,                                                              
"I'm not sure just listening to your presentation, that it doesn't                                                              
make a lot of sense if I were a hereditary monarch sitting on a                                                                 
hundred year supply of oil, and I had two ways to keep marginal                                                                 
production out.  One being to hold the price at $12 a barrel, the                                                               
other being let the price go to $10 a barrel for six months every                                                               
three or four years.  I couldn't achieve the same result in terms                                                               
of keeping the bankers out of the oil industry and get more money                                                               
in the process."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. FLIAKOS agreed, except as a dictator one would run the risk of                                                              
social upheaval and dislocations.  The Economist published an                                                                   
article in February which suggested that there was a dramatic                                                                   
change in Saudi policy and the desire to keep the price of oil low                                                              
in order to back out the high production cost.  Only three weeks                                                                
later, the Saudis got together with the Iranians and decided to                                                                 
lower production in order to raise the price of oil.  Mr. Fliakos                                                               
specified that he disagreed with that article because the Saudis                                                                
were hurting, which leaves one to wonder what is happening in other                                                             
countries.  It is difficult to manipulate the market in that way.                                                               
However, if the price of oil climbs too high, then they are locked.                                                             
There is no evidence that any foreign producing country would throw                                                             
cost reserves in a manipulative way.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 257                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BILL BRITT, Pipeline Coordinator, Department of Natural Resources,                                                              
informed the committee that the charge of the Pipeline                                                                          
Coordinator's office is the administration of the Right-of-way                                                                  
Leasing Act which is codified in AS 38.35.  He noted that his                                                                   
office works within the Joint Pipeline Office(JPO) which is a                                                                   
consortium of 11 federal and state agencies.  He provided the                                                                   
committee with copies of the JPO's latest annual report and two                                                                 
comprehensive monitoring program reports.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRITT explained that the state right-of-way lease for the                                                                   
Trans-Alaska Pipeline(TAPS) was signed on May 3, 1974 for a 30 year                                                             
term.  The federal grant had been signed some months prior for a 30                                                             
year term as well.  Both expire in the year 2004.  There have been                                                              
indications from owner companies that an application will be                                                                    
forthcoming.  However, the timing is unknown.  Currently, the state                                                             
administers about half of the right-of-way, about 402 miles, of                                                                 
which 145 miles are administered through the federal grant because                                                              
federal lands were transferred to the state along with the federal                                                              
right-of-way.  The state was charged with the administration of the                                                             
federal right-of-way.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRITT stated that the renewal will be based on the following:                                                               
the federal grant, the state lease, the Trans-Alaska Authorization                                                              
Act, and the Right-of-way Leasing Act.  He explained that the lease                                                             
renewal can occur if the pipeline remains in commercial operation                                                               
and is in compliance with state law.  The Right-of-way Leasing Act                                                              
also mentions compliance with the lease itself.  The grant says                                                                 
that the renewal is subject to the Trans-Alaska Pipeline                                                                        
Authorization Act(TAPA) which requires renewal based on the useful                                                              
life of the facility.  Mr. Britt explained that, at some point, an                                                              
application will be received which will be publicly noticed.                                                                    
Furthermore, a commissioner's analysis and proposed decision is                                                                 
prepared for new applications as well as renewals.  He informed the                                                             
committee that, recently, new applications have been received from                                                              
Badami and Alpine.  The commissioner's report on Northstar is                                                                   
currently out for public review.  He anticipated the commissioner's                                                             
analysis to address lease compliance, compliance with state and                                                                 
federal laws, the useful life analysis, and a draft lease is                                                                    
attached for public review.  The commissioner's analysis is                                                                     
publicly noticed and there is a comment period.  Then there is                                                                  
finalization of the decision and execution of the decision.  The                                                                
federal process is similar in that a TAPA analysis, similar to a                                                                
commissioner's analysis, is done.  There have been indications that                                                             
there will be a draft grant which would be equivalent to the                                                                    
state's draft lease.  Both the federal government and the state's                                                               
office have indicated to each other the need to coordinate the                                                                  
process.  However, there are unanswered questions such as how the                                                               
federal government will address National Environmental Policy Act                                                               
(NEPA) when an application is received.  The federal government                                                                 
could choose not to address it at all under a categorical exclusion                                                             
or require an environmental impact statement.  The federal                                                                      
government's choice will be a large force behind how this moves                                                                 
forward.  Furthermore, the timing of the application is unknown and                                                             
the material needed from the owners at the time of application has                                                              
not defined.  Also, Alyeska's role has yet to be specified.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRITT, in response to Chairman Halford, said that one                                                                       
application would be received from the seven owner companies.                                                                   
Currently, David DeGruyter (ph), former president of BP                                                                         
Transportation Alaska, has been charged by the owner companies as                                                               
the project manager for this process.  In further response, Mr.                                                                 
Britt believed that the original application was a consolidated                                                                 
application.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 357                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER inquired as to the percentage of the line                                                                 
that has stayed federal.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRITT said that it is fairly close to 50-50.  The private                                                                   
ownership constitutes less than 10 percent.  The private land                                                                   
ownership is covered by the federal grant.  In response to                                                                      
Representative Whitaker, Mr. Britt explained NEPA.  When the                                                                    
federal government receives an application for an action or                                                                     
activity that would affect the human environment, a certain process                                                             
is required.  First, an environmental assessment (EA) is required                                                               
in order to establish a threshold determining whether an                                                                        
environmental impact statement (EIS) is required or not.  If an EIS                                                             
is not required, a Finding of No Significant Impact (FONSI) is                                                                  
produced.  If an EIS is required, it is done.  He noted that for a                                                              
variety of reasons the EA can be skipped and an EIS can be done.                                                                
Recently, the EIS has been completed for the Northstar project.                                                                 
The EIS for the Liberty project is just beginning.  Mr. Britt                                                                   
pointed out that the basis of the litigation of the Alpine project                                                              
against the Corps of Engineers was that the Corps of Engineers                                                                  
decided not to prepare an EIS.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD inquired as to the method of enforcement.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRITT specified that the office does land law which basically                                                               
says that if noncompliance is found with the lease, the office is                                                               
required to inform the tenant of the deficiencies.  The tenant is                                                               
given a reasonable amount of time to correct the deficiencies.                                                                  
Although the commissioner's orders have not been utilized, it is in                                                             
the office's power.  In a worst case scenario, the lease allows the                                                             
state and federal government to do the work and send the bill to                                                                
the lessees.  In further response to Chairman Halford, Mr. Britt                                                                
informed the committee that in 1993, a series of audits of Alyeska                                                              
resulted in the identification of some 5,000 deficiencies.  Those                                                               
deficiencies were formalized as audit action items.  Of those, five                                                             
remain from 1993 and are expected to close at the end of the year.                                                              
These five involve long-term projects such as the deficiency in the                                                             
remote gate valves for which the remedy is the fiber optics cable                                                               
system being put in along the pipeline.  Another deficiency was                                                                 
some 5,000 drawings that were out of date.  Currently, those                                                                    
drawings have been redlined and an acceptable backlog amount has                                                                
been established.  Mr. Britt offered to provide the committee with                                                              
the other three deficiencies at a later time.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD moved to the public testimony portion of the                                                                   
meeting.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 457                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
FLOYD HEIMBUCH informed the committee of his representation of the                                                              
Kenai Peninsula Borough and his past position as Chair of the Oil                                                               
Spill Prevention & Response Committee.  Mr. Heimbuch was wary of                                                                
the merger; alternatives should be considered.  He suggested that                                                               
the state should acquire ARCO facilities located in Alaska which                                                                
would result in an acquisition study.  He acknowledged that both                                                                
the merger or an acquisition would be complex with functional and                                                               
dysfunctional aspects requiring study.  He believed that an                                                                     
acquisition would allay the two fears often expressed.  One fear is                                                             
regarding too much ownership by one company, and a foreign company                                                              
at that.  The other fear is with regard to how the permanent fund                                                               
is viewed.  If there was an acquisition, there would be a focus                                                                 
which would allow the elimination of the fear that when politicians                                                             
get the money we are not safe.  In conclusion, he urged the                                                                     
committee to consider acquisition.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 518                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHRISTY McGRAW, Director, BACKBONE-Standing Up for Alaska's Future,                                                             
noted that the organization has been working hard to help Alaskans                                                              
understand the issues surrounding the merger.  BACKBONE's                                                                       
membership is steadily increasing as is the understanding of                                                                    
Alaskans of these issues.  She announced that over the next several                                                             
weeks, BACKBONE will mount a media campaign.  She informed the                                                                  
committee that BACKBONE published an article which referenced a                                                                 
recent poll by the Alaska Conservation Alliance which found that 83                                                             
percent of 300 people polled statewide believe there should be                                                                  
conditions placed on this merger.  Wide response was received from                                                              
that article which illustrates the concerns of Alaskans regarding                                                               
the process moving too fast and not allowing Alaska to receive the                                                              
best deal it can.  She read an anonymous response to the article                                                                
which agreed that Alaska could become a company state and that BP                                                               
tells soft truths.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGRAW said, "The world's second largest non-governmental oil                                                               
company will have no heart, as evidenced by the Wall Street Journal                                                             
article ... on the Amoco takeover."  Furthermore, it is the nature                                                              
of huge multinational corporations to hold shareholder interests                                                                
first and foremost.  She believed that this situation will get                                                                  
ugly, especially since Governor Knowles has yet to take a firm                                                                  
stand on protecting Alaskan's interests.  She informed the                                                                      
committee that tomorrow and in the next few weeks, BACKBONE will                                                                
run a display ad in the Anchorage Daily News which asks Governor                                                                
Knowles to stand up for Alaskan's rights and best interests.  Ms.                                                               
McGraw identified the following as points voters should address to                                                              
the Governor:                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Ensuring that Alaskans get maximum production and value                                                                    
     for North Slope oil and guaranteeing the sale of our gas                                                                   
     now.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Protecting our land and marine environments and our                                                                        
     fishing industry through their transportation practices.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Eliminating a monopoly on the TAPS and getting back our                                                                    
     Dismantling, Removal, and Restoration (DR&R)Funds.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Maximizing competition and return to Alaskans on North                                                                     
     Slope facilities, pipelines, and fields.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGRAW emphasized that since the Governor seems unwilling to                                                                
act, it will be up to this committee and the Attorney General.  She                                                             
said that BACKBONE will assist the committee.  BACKBONE has formed                                                              
committees which will meet in order to develop recommendations for                                                              
"your transmittal to the FTC."  The following issues will be                                                                    
examined:  access, competition, the state's position, natural gas                                                               
and the environment.  BACKBONE will provide the committee with a                                                                
full briefing in order for the committee to make the best                                                                       
recommendation.  Ms. McGraw requested that this committee do three                                                              
things.  She requested that the committee appropriate a minimum of                                                              
5 [million]...                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-4, SIDE A                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGRAW requested that the committee make all the reports and                                                                
such that it has available to BACKBONE in order for BACKBONE to                                                                 
make the best recommendation to the committee.  In conclusion, Ms.                                                              
McGraw said, "If [Governor] Tony Knowles does not act to protect                                                                
Alaska's interest, BACKBONE asks that you work with us and the                                                                  
people of Alaska to prove we deserve better."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER inquired as to what raised the concern                                                                  
about moving too quickly.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGRAW stated that there has been mention of a short time line.                                                             
There has also been mention of October 1 to October 15 as the                                                                   
finalization of the recommendations of the FTC.  It is not clear                                                                
that is enough time for the FTC or Alaska to understand the issues                                                              
and recommendations.  As much time as necessary to gain an                                                                      
understanding should occur.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER recognized that Ms. McGraw seems to                                                                     
differentiate between the Governor and the Attorney General.  He                                                                
asked if she had a basis for that differentiation.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. McGRAW commented that she did not have a factual basis, but                                                                 
there have been indications from BACKBONE's committee that the                                                                  
Governor may not be moving in the right direction in the opinion of                                                             
some of the team or the Administration.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD turned to Ms. McGraw's three requests and pointed                                                              
out that this committee cannot make any appropriations until the                                                                
legislature is in session.  He noted that one thought has been to                                                               
ask the Administration, whether money would be needed if an                                                                     
antitrust action is to be filed.  With regard to the requests about                                                             
information and access to information, he agreed with Ms. McGraw's                                                              
desire to have the information public, but he also agreed, in part,                                                             
with the companies not wanting the business plan to be public.  He                                                              
commented that this is the strangest process with which he has been                                                             
involved.  Either way confidentiality poses barriers.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 038                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
STEVE CONN, Executive Director, Alaska Public Interest Research                                                                 
Group (AKPIRG), was next to testify.  He informed the committee                                                                 
that AKPIRG is also a member of BACKBONE.  This merger seems to be                                                              
the most significant public policy question in Alaska's history.                                                                
It appears that Alaska's highest concern, when becoming a state,                                                                
was sovereignty and the drafters of the Alaska Constitution                                                                     
understood that "at the crux of political sovereignty was economic                                                              
sovereignty.  An ability to guide one's destiny through some level                                                              
of control of one's natural resources."  That ability lives within                                                              
a larger world, inhabited by multi-national companies and guided by                                                             
market's out of the state's control.  At that time and to this day,                                                             
the leverage advocated has been competition and a true free market.                                                             
The component most important to true sovereignty is the presence or                                                             
absence of economic sovereignty.  In other words, if one does not                                                               
guide economic sovereignty then one is guided.  Mr. Conn stressed                                                               
that he stands with the committee in its ability to be a true                                                                   
state's person.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. CONN did not believe the FTC can be looked to for support of                                                                
Alaska's economic sovereignty.  Furthermore, he believed it                                                                     
unlikely for the FTC to side with Alaska in this issue that                                                                     
ultimately defines Alaska's destiny rather than the world's.  If                                                                
anyone is to protect Alaska's economic future, it is to be the                                                                  
legislature.  Mr. Conn endorsed the position of BACKBONE in that                                                                
the initiative falls to the legislature for funds sufficient and a                                                              
serious antitrust action which would press for the release of                                                                   
documents necessary for an honest evaluation of Alaska's situation.                                                             
He suggested that currently, a multinational oil company is working                                                             
its will on Alaska's body politic before a merger has occurred                                                                  
which is a bad sign for Alaska's future.  This is an attempt to                                                                 
achieve backdoor tax protection for BP.  Mr. Conn encouraged the                                                                
committee to determine to what degree BP, directly or indirectly,                                                               
is underwriting the campaign in favor of the vote.  In his opinion,                                                             
the committee is entitled to information and to ask BP how it is                                                                
spending its political dollar on Alaska's political landscape.  He                                                              
hoped the issue of how BP will perform as a corporate citizen will                                                              
be reviewed along side of the issues discussed today.  He stressed                                                              
the need to focus on the fact that the members' roles as political                                                              
leaders and guiding forces is part of the consideration of the                                                                  
merger.  Alaska is at a cross roads.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0161                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIM SYKES, Oilwatch Alaska, commented that Mr. Conn raised some                                                                 
very valid points.  He believed the reason for this meeting                                                                     
surrounds whether Alaska can control BP or BP will control Alaska.                                                              
He hoped the committee had received Oilwatch Alaska's report                                                                    
entitled, "The Big Squeeze" which demonstrates how competition has                                                              
been eliminated on the North Slope.  Historically, those things                                                                 
which the oil industry has promised the legislature would increase                                                              
competition, has virtually eliminated competition.  He informed the                                                             
committee that after speaking with the FTC, he learned that only                                                                
about one percent of the FTC's cases ever go to court.  Therefore,                                                              
if Alaska wants to affect this process and the decision of what is                                                              
best for Alaska, it must happen soon and the state must take the                                                                
lead.  In review of the mergers considered by the FTC, there have                                                               
not been many that the FTC has not approved.  When the FTC finds                                                                
difficulty with a merger, the parties are approached in order to                                                                
negotiate the problems.  Going to court is a last resort.                                                                       
Therefore, Mr. Sykes supported BACKBONE's request for a $5 million                                                              
appropriation.  If the Governor calls a special session, Mr. Sykes                                                              
suggested that while there the legislature should call its own                                                                  
special session in order to consider this merger.  Mr. Sykes                                                                    
understood that the companies may want to wrap up the merger in                                                                 
September or early October.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SYKES pointed out that currently Alaska's leasing, royalty and                                                              
tax system is based on competition.  There is much evidence that                                                                
this merger will eliminate competition and he offered to provide                                                                
the committee with that information.  Mr. Sykes stressed, "The                                                                  
state cannot react soon enough to deal with a company that has                                                                  
entrenched itself as the controller of our source of oil and the                                                                
majority of our leases and the control of our oil transportation                                                                
system over land and marine.  The state cannot soon enough deal                                                                 
with changing the structure to a noncompetitive environment, but                                                                
you could do some things during a special session."  He suggested                                                               
the consideration of emergency powers to deal with a noncompetitive                                                             
environment.  One such power might be to return to separate                                                                     
accounting to consider how much BP spends and makes in Alaska and                                                               
tax them separately from their worldwide profits.  There could also                                                             
be consideration of public ownership of TAPS.  Mr. Sykes encouraged                                                             
taking back the leases in excess of the amount which BP would                                                                   
legally be allowed to hold were a merger to occur.  The state must                                                              
empower itself to determine which leases to take and not allow BP                                                               
the choice of which leases it wishes to keep.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked, "On the day before the merger occurs, don't                                                             
they have the constitutional right to give us back what they                                                                    
choose."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SYKES agreed that appears to be the case and continued with his                                                             
testimony.  He stressed the need for the state to analyze the                                                                   
profitability which has not been performed in some time.  Over the                                                              
past few years, oil and gas lifting costs have been cut by more                                                                 
than 50 percent resulting in increasing corporate profits while the                                                             
state receives the same royalty.  Alaska is not sharing in the                                                                  
technological developments making oil more profitable in Alaska.                                                                
Mr. Sykes pointed out, "If you consider, in 1998 dollars, the 100                                                               
or so billion dollars of net profit that has been made by the oil                                                               
industry in Alaska, approximately half of that has been made by                                                                 
BP."  Furthermore, two years ago Alaska was probably 45 percent of                                                              
BP's profitability, of their worldwide corporation.  When the BP-                                                               
Amoco merger occurred, Alaska fell to about 33 percent of BP's                                                                  
profitability.  Although one would think the acquisition of ARCO                                                                
would increase Alaska's emphasis, ARCO has other holdings in the                                                                
world.  This merger would actually place Alaska at about 25 percent                                                             
of the worldwide holdings.  Therefore, when a corporation attempts                                                              
to perform the best for its worldwide shareholders, that                                                                        
corporation will review the worldwide view.  Sir John Browne said                                                               
just that on television last week; that operations in marginal                                                                  
places will be cut.  That is a warning for Alaska which could                                                                   
become "a backwater of oil development."  This is comparable to the                                                             
warning given to the constitutional convention.  "When a single                                                                 
entity has large sectors of public land under lease or under their                                                              
control, then we are at their mercy."  Mr. Sykes noted that                                                                     
consideration may need to be given to other things such as the fact                                                             
that other oil producing regions automatically own 51 percent of                                                                
anything a corporation does in their area.  He also expressed the                                                               
need to review the option of contracting out the extraction and                                                                 
distribution of oil.  A potential problem with the merger is that                                                               
even if there was competition in the future, the competition may                                                                
not be able to enter the West Coast market to refine or distribute                                                              
the down stream products from Alaska because one entity controlling                                                             
the oil supply and the transportation also owns a large sector of                                                               
the refining and distribution on the West Coast.  With regard to                                                                
the issue of confidentiality, Mr. Sykes understood from the FTC                                                                 
that the state is free to release information.  Although he                                                                     
understood the information being gathered is being done upon                                                                    
agreement of confidentiality, the state does have the authority to                                                              
ask the parties to release it to the public.  In conclusion, Mr.                                                                
Sykes encouraged the appropriation and filing of a lawsuit in the                                                               
state or federal court.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 278                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HAROLD HEINZE, 30 year Alaskan resident, informed the committee                                                                 
that he was President of ARCO Alaska and ARCO Transportation                                                                    
Company in the 1980s.  In the early 1990s, Mr. Heinze was the                                                                   
Commissioner of Natural Resources for Governor Hickel.  Currently,                                                              
Mr. Heinze is a consultant.  He specified that he was present as a                                                              
private citizen offering his opinion of what the legislature should                                                             
do regarding the proposed merger.  Firstly, Mr. Heinze did not like                                                             
the loss of ARCO in the Alaskan oil industry, but felt it best for                                                              
the merger to move forward.  The State of Alaska has an opportunity                                                             
to enhance the future of future North Slope oil development.  "The                                                              
small reduction of competitive momentum in Alaska is more than                                                                  
offset by the greatly strengthened competitive position of Alaska                                                               
in the international oil industry."  Mr. Heinze did not believe                                                                 
that a confrontational relationship with a major segment of the                                                                 
Alaskan economy serves anyone.  Furthermore, there is a danger that                                                             
some will use merger conditions to construct barriers to oil                                                                    
development which is and will continue to be in the best interest                                                               
of Alaskans.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEINZE acknowledged that there are issues related to the                                                                    
state's interest.  However, the threats are limited in number and                                                               
manageable through existing mechanisms and agencies.  Clearly,                                                                  
Alaska loses when an economic oil field development project is                                                                  
either delayed or not undertaken.  If that became an issue, Mr.                                                                 
Heinze believed that the Alaska Oil & Gas Conservation Commission                                                               
has authority legally to spotlight and correct such an abuse.  He                                                               
said that if true abuses occurred, the public opinion reaction                                                                  
would be strong.  Furthermore, he believed BP-Amoco realizes that                                                               
its best interest aligns with Alaskan public interest.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEINZE recalled that the Alaska Constitution assigns resource                                                               
development policy to the legislature.  Therefore, it is                                                                        
appropriate for this committee to define and highlight Alaska's                                                                 
development expectations and communicate those directly and                                                                     
publicly to BP's executive management in Alaska and London.                                                                     
Resulting from that effort will be a definition of ways to ensure                                                               
the vision remains before all Alaskans and is publicly accountable.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER inquired as to what happens if in meeting                                                               
with BP it is found that BP disagrees with what the legislature                                                                 
believes to be in the best interest of Alaska.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. HEINZE said that he did not foresee such a scenario.  If Alaska                                                             
defines what is in its best interest, then that can be communicated                                                             
to BP and become the rules in Alaska.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 350                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
VIC FISCHER noted that he appeared before the committee at its last                                                             
meeting during which he indicated the need to provide the public                                                                
with information.  He believed Alaskans are being bombarded by soft                                                             
ads intended "to lull Alaskans to sleep."  That is of concern.  Mr.                                                             
Fischer expressed tremendous respect for BP who has done a                                                                      
phenomenal job developing the North Slope, as has ARCO.  He                                                                     
suggested the committee lean on the Governor and the executive                                                                  
branch to publicly present the committee with the conclusions and                                                               
the public interest aspects of the various task forces studying the                                                             
proposed merger.  The information that should be provided to the                                                                
public has nothing to do with confidentiality.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD stated that Mr. Fischer's suggestion was good.                                                                 
Furthermore, the conclusions of the task forces are not the                                                                     
confidential data upon which they are based.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER commented that the committee has subpoena                                                               
powers in that regard.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 400                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA WILLIAMS, Alaska Injured Workers Alliance, commented that                                                               
this merger will affect Alaska's children who receive a permanent                                                               
fund.  As affected persons, children should have a say in this                                                                  
merger.  Or the child's parent should have a say on behalf of their                                                             
child.  Ms. Williams did not believe the permanent fund should be                                                               
"monkeyed" with.  Ms. Williams, as a representative of injured                                                                  
workers, expressed the need to receive a public commitment from BP                                                              
ARCO to continue their level of contributions to community                                                                      
services.  If the merger occurs, she believed there would be less                                                               
available to give to communities.  She said, "We want to see that                                                               
these funds and these contributions remain high and continue for                                                                
smaller organizations, such as myself, that provide free services                                                               
to people that have worked in the oil fields."  She also expressed                                                              
the need to protect workers and to make sure that this merger is                                                                
not driven by a political agenda.  Ms. Williams explained that when                                                             
people are chemically injured, they must be flown outside the                                                                   
state.  If no one knows what is wrong with these chemically injured                                                             
persons, they are not able to seek medical treatment.  She informed                                                             
the committee that currently she has a list of five that may die                                                                
without proper medical care.  Alaska Injured Workers Alliance                                                                   
provides free services to get those people to the medical care                                                                  
needed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS stated that the Alaska Injured Workers Alliance is a                                                               
nonprofit, grass roots organization that needs support from                                                                     
entities such as BP and ARCO.  She noted that the alliance works                                                                
with the Community Action Groups on Toxics and the Conservation                                                                 
Foundation in order to provide communities with awareness about                                                                 
toxins.  Those working in the oil industry are often exposed to                                                                 
many things.  Furthermore, oil industry workers are often                                                                       
encouraged not to report on the job injuries due to bonus packages                                                              
available.  Ms. Williams explained that the alliance receives many                                                              
people who cannot obtain legal services to litigate their claims                                                                
because there are 10 attorneys statewide for 30,000 statewide                                                                   
claims.  Therefore, the alliance is the only source of support for                                                              
these workers.  Ms. Williams asked if it would be appropriate, at                                                               
this time, to ask BP if it will commit to a continued level of                                                                  
giving.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD noted that BP is not present to answer, but he                                                                 
believed there is a statement from BP or BP ARCO that said the                                                                  
giving would continue to the level of the combination of the two                                                                
entities in the past.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS commented that the alliance has not seen any giving                                                                
from them.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 496                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
NICK BEGICH echoed comments regarding the merger being one of the                                                               
most important issues facing Alaska.  Mr. Begich believed there are                                                             
the following two types of oil companies, the multinational oil                                                                 
companies and the government oil companies.  He also noted that                                                                 
Alaska can be equated to a third world company in many aspects.                                                                 
Third world companies often reach a point at which the question                                                                 
arises as to whether it is time for them to produce their own oil.                                                              
They question if they are receiving a fair deal from a company that                                                             
really represents its stockholders' interests first.  He believed                                                               
that there has already been debate with London regarding past tax                                                               
questions.  Alaska has given up billions to our partners when most                                                              
prudent businessmen would have been looking for new partners.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEGICH turned to the question, "What would happen if Alaska                                                                 
bought the assets of ARCO?"  He pointed out that those assets can                                                               
be defined as well as segregated from the international and other                                                               
Lower 48 interests by the offer made by BP.  Alaska could receive                                                               
12.5 percent plus about 40 percent of what ARCO Alaska would have                                                               
passing through the pipeline.  Furthermore, the transportation fees                                                             
would offset the expenditure of buying the Alaskan assets.  Given                                                               
that the value has been defined, Mr. Begich did not believe it                                                                  
would be many years before the transportation costs would sum the                                                               
cost of the acquisition.  He alluded to the possibility of                                                                      
accomplishing that through the Alaska Industrial Development Fund                                                               
or placing an option on the ballot.  Then discussion would move                                                                 
from decreasing permanent funds to the future of the permanent fund                                                             
over 10 years with 52 percent of North Slope oil moving through                                                                 
that pipeline.  The discussion could then turn to Alaskan hire.                                                                 
Furthermore, competition between private and public could occur.                                                                
Mr. Begich stressed that if this were costed out, there would be                                                                
distinct advantages and the revenue stream for the state would                                                                  
increase.  He pointed out that in many politically unrest                                                                       
countries, there are commitments of billions of dollars and in many                                                             
instances, up to 50 percent royalties.  Yet, Alaska is a safe                                                                   
place.  What will happen when 70 percent of Alaska's resources are                                                              
controlled by one entity?  Will Alaska's resources sit in reserve?                                                              
Will places be developed that are easy to exploit in terms of                                                                   
environmental protections?  Perhaps, Alaska is in a position to                                                                 
produce its own resources and maybe this is the time to consider                                                                
such.  Mr. Begich stated that coming to the table arguing over the                                                              
crumbs left, in terms of handouts, is not the position Alaskans                                                                 
should be in negotiating the fundamental resources.  He echoed                                                                  
earlier comments regarding the intent of the Alaska Constitution.                                                               
He stressed, "The idea that we're going to rely on the Federal                                                                  
Trade Commission, the federal government, to cut a good deal for                                                                
Alaskans when they already diminishing the deal they made with us                                                               
under statehood, in terms of our royalty shares to open up ANWR or                                                              
to open up the Navel Petroleum Reserve; I think is a ridiculous                                                                 
assumption that we're going to be protected by the federal                                                                      
government.  It's up to Alaskans, it's up to you, elected officers                                                              
representing this state, to make sure that we get the best for                                                                  
Alaskans.  Look at an acquisition as an alternative."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-4, SIDE B                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD FINEBERG noted that he testified before the committee on                                                                
June 11, 1999, regarding the need for the state to consider                                                                     
acquisition of TAPS as a condition of the proposed merger.  He                                                                  
noted that his premise has been reinforced by data developed since                                                              
that testimony.  The premise was that unless the pipeline is                                                                    
operated by an entity that does not have production interests on                                                                
the North Slope, the state cannot expect other companies besides BP                                                             
to make significant contributions to future North Slope                                                                         
development.  Mr. Fineberg maintained that recommendation based on                                                              
four pieces of information that have emerged since the last                                                                     
meeting.  First, through a committee member's request, he has                                                                   
learned that the pipeline tariffs in 1998 and 1999 illustrate very                                                              
little of the competition promised by the 1997 amended capacity                                                                 
settlement agreement.  Furthermore, that information does not                                                                   
illustrate the benefit of reduced tariffs on the order of those                                                                 
achievable through state acquisition of the pipeline.  He referred                                                              
the committee to Table 2 of his June 11, 1999, testimony as well as                                                             
his July 21, 1999, memorandum to Chairman Halford.  Mr. Fineberg                                                                
noted that he had reviewed updates of the previous analysis of                                                                  
collections under the 1985 TAPS settlement agreement for the                                                                    
dismantling of the pipeline.  He informed the committee that he                                                                 
concluded that the $1.535 billion collected through 1998 has an                                                                 
imputed value today of $4.5 to $4.9 billion versus expected                                                                     
dismantling costs on the same basis of $2.3 billion.  "In other                                                                 
words, the TAPS owners have made a tremendous killing on an                                                                     
environmental requirement portrayed in the 1985 settlement as a                                                                 
nonprofit item."  The basis for the numbers are in the June 24,                                                                 
1999, report.  He said, "In view of the disparity between DR&R                                                                  
collections and me and the recent charges by six mid-level Alyeska                                                              
employees that senior executives on the pipeline are actively                                                                   
squelching whistle-blowers and are receiving no relief from state                                                               
and federal monitors, environmental and public interest groups have                                                             
called for independent audit of the pipeline in connection with the                                                             
merger."  He noted that was item 3 of the new report.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. FINEBERG informed the committee of a rumor, from good sources,                                                              
that BP is negotiating this week in Houston to sell 72 percent of                                                               
the pipeline to an independent buyer in order to guarantee lower                                                                
future tariffs.  He recalled that BP and ARCO spent three months                                                                
perfecting their takeover plan before informing the state of the                                                                
plan.  He said, "I would like to know if the state is a party to or                                                             
monitoring these negotiations if they are taking place."  He                                                                    
expressed concern with DR&R regarding lease renewal and the request                                                             
for low tariffs.  Mr. Fineberg encouraged careful research.  He                                                                 
noted the 1999 reports of Professor James Smith of SMU and his                                                                  
colleague to the National Bureau of Economic Research which refused                                                             
the assertion that the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission                                                               
(AOGCC) has sufficient authority to protect Alaska's interests.                                                                 
Furthermore, the FTC has made it clear that Alaska's situation is                                                               
unique and the FTC may not have the statutory authority to deal                                                                 
with those.  In conclusion, Mr. Fineberg urged the committee to                                                                 
take immediate action in order to ensure that Alaska's interests                                                                
are protected.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 071                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TOM LAKOSH provided the committee with some charts.  He noted that                                                              
he reviewed this issue from a different light.  BP has exerted its                                                              
monopolistic control and created the current budget crisis.  With                                                               
regard to vapor recovery, that has occurred on two berths while two                                                             
berths remain uncontrolled.  BP's pump at Alyeska and its other                                                                 
shippers promised that they would be able to ship 1.1 million                                                                   
barrels per day at the controlled berths and an exemption would be                                                              
given at the two other berths in order to meet the Department of                                                                
Revenue projections for 1998, 1999, and 2000.  The 1998 allowance                                                               
was 275,000 barrels per day.  The 1999 allowance 205,000 barrels                                                                
per day.  The 2000 allowance was over 100,000 barrels per day.  As                                                              
it turns out, only about 1.03 million barrels per day, controlled                                                               
and uncontrolled, have been loaded.  He pointed out that they have                                                              
refused to lower it at the uncontrolled berths.  "Initially, this                                                               
might seem to be an altruistic reason to prevent air pollution.                                                                 
But, in fact, if that were the case they'd put the controls on                                                                  
berth 3 and have control loading at three berths instead.  So what                                                              
essentially has been happening here is that BP has been controlling                                                             
the West Coast market supply by refusing to load their tankers, by                                                              
not replacing the tankers that have been retired.  And as a matter                                                              
of fact, they refuse to service Alaska with tankers that were not                                                               
yet required to be retired under OPA 90 [Oil Pollution Act of                                                                   
1990]."  He indicated that BP's further monopolistic control is an                                                              
antitrust action which must be prohibited by law.  He referred the                                                              
committee to the tanker retirement schedule for 1998 through 2008.                                                              
There is a southern, northern, western, and eastern line which has                                                              
disappeared.  From information provided by DEC and RCAC, those                                                                  
tankers were taken from the fleet in order to avoid having to bring                                                             
in extra spill response equipment to meet the response planning                                                                 
standards for these large tankers.  These three or four vessels                                                                 
that were scheduled for retirement this year have been taken out of                                                             
service, which does not allow Alaska to ship its oil.  For that                                                                 
reason, there is a budget shortfall.  Those tankers were not                                                                    
replaced and plans with NASCO to build "Cape" class tankers were                                                                
cancelled one week before the announcement merger.  Sources in ARCO                                                             
say that cancellation of the building of the "Millennium" tankers                                                               
would have probably occurred if it would not cost more to cancel                                                                
than continue.  He believed the plans for the "Millennium" tankers                                                              
are being scrapped.  Therefore, there are two forms of antitrust,                                                               
anti-competitive action.  First, the quantity of tankers to meet                                                                
the free trade requirement is not being produced.  Second,                                                                      
innovation and quality competition is being stifled.  This is a                                                                 
situation in which BP knows it must have the tankers.  He referred                                                              
to information which laid out the year of tanker replacement and                                                                
what Mr. Lakosh considered the "Millennium" equivalent and the                                                                  
minimum amount of construction schedules that must be produced                                                                  
which results in about 20 tankers.  Mr. Lakosh proposed the                                                                     
building of 14 tankers by 2007 because of possible reduction in                                                                 
through put; that is merely an estimate.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAKOSH emphasized the need for this committee, as he had                                                                    
requested from the Governor, to request information regarding the                                                               
construction schedule for tankers.  The request to the Governor was                                                             
passed off to Mr. Dietrick in DEC.  He pointed out that it takes at                                                             
least two years once construction begins, but yards must be lined                                                               
up or nothing will be shipped.  Past practices indicate that they                                                               
have total control of the state's budget and economy.  BP has yet                                                               
to provide any information and refused to provide any information                                                               
unless secrecy was promised.  Mr. Lakosh stated that the response                                                               
from Mr. Dietrick was comparable to a BP advertisement in the                                                                   
paper.  He noted that Mr. Britt has heard his appeal and                                                                        
Representative Kerttula was their counsel when Mr. Lakosh attempted                                                             
to enforce the DNR lease with regards to the Valdez marine terminal                                                             
contingency plan submitted in August of 1993.  Still, outstanding                                                               
conditions of appeal on what has not been approved since August of                                                              
1993 remain.  Mr. Britt and the commissioner have refused to                                                                    
enforce the lease.  Therefore, forfeiture of the lease under                                                                    
Article VIII Section 8 should be discussed versus the blessing of                                                               
the merger.  He hoped that the committee would review Mr. Fischer's                                                             
analysis of Article VIII.  How can ARCO be put out of business when                                                             
it was the only company that made efforts to protect Alaska's                                                                   
natural resources with the design and construction of the                                                                       
"Millennium" class tankers.  If ARCO Marine was maintained, there                                                               
would be at least 10 "Millennium" class tankers.  Now, there will                                                               
only be three "Millennium" class tankers and no "Cape" class                                                                    
tankers because BP no longer needs to compete with ARCO on the West                                                             
Coast for green customers.  He reiterated the need to have a                                                                    
specific tanker construction schedule as well as the data regarding                                                             
the turnaround time for those tankers.  He stressed the need for                                                                
the committee to not only review the consequences of the merger,                                                                
but also what would continue even if the merger did not occur with                                                              
regard to BP's manipulation of the through put on the pipeline.                                                                 
This is a continuous debate to achieve the types of protection                                                                  
Alaska is guaranteed under law.  BP's efforts have prohibited the                                                               
use of the best available technology throughout the line.  For                                                                  
example, DNR and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) had a                                                                      
requirement for annual contingency plan reviews in the lease and                                                                
the grant; such has not been seen for seven years.  Therefore, the                                                              
lease renewal must be closely reviewed.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 239                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if the lack of tanker space has                                                                     
decreased the amount of oil that has went to market.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAKOSH stressed that the pipeline and production has to be                                                                  
slowed because of the tanks that were not completed.  Therefore,                                                                
the tanks fill and they are refusing to go to the berth to load the                                                             
tankers.  For every day that production is slowed, Alaska has that                                                              
many less dollars to spend.  Furthermore, such actions raise                                                                    
gasoline prices.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if anyone else wished to testify.  There                                                                 
being no one, he closed the public testimony.  He announced that                                                                
another meeting would be scheduled in August.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the Joint                                                                 
Special Committee on Mergers meeting was adjourned at an                                                                        
unspecified time.                                                                                                               

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